But getting the vice president to call copyright infringement "outright theft" is.
The case turned on the distinction between self-dealing and outright theft.
So even if they don't resort to outright theft, they move things around.
Though outright theft is the exception, some officials say slack financial oversight has become commonplace.
But what happens when creative borrowing crosses the line into outright theft?
In a few cases, the indictments charged brokers with outright theft of investors' profits.
And one competitor says he fears that he was the victim of outright theft.
What a piece of outright theft in fact!
"When it gets to the point of outright theft, then you can imagine the profits to be made."
But equally, they could be coerced by blackmail, or even outright theft.