Nowhere has talk about casinos been more fervent than in the Catskills, where the once-thriving resort industry has become a shadow of its former self.

The money also helps offset complaints about Indian casinos.

"This business about casinos being bad for society is baloney," Mr. Gold said.

He also once consulted with Native Americans about casinos and poker rooms.

They talked about local politics, casinos, and fishing as they ate, though Hoppy's appetite was nil.

Then, there was his voice, chirping along nervously about local politics and casinos and fishing with an occasional entry by Moke.

But there was some concern about casinos growing too rapidly or the area becoming too much like Las Vegas.

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"I've been hearing about casinos since I was a kid," he said.

As for people leaping to conclusions about casinos, she said: "Let them leap.